ASPERGERS SYNDROME???

[Liverbird]

if the professionals list the problems on a letter/overview on how the last docs meeting went and titles of problems are as follows : Social communication difficulties, Sensory Integration Difficulties, and Developmental co-ordination difficulties, would you say that that is basically known as just one word, not a mouth full of others, called 'aspergers' ......

[skittle]

No, not necessarily.

[MichealP]

No I wouldn't

[pearlsgirl]

Hi

I guess it might depend on the purpose of the meeting/review. Sorry I don't know that much about ASD, so am speaking in general terms rather than specifc. But if the purpose is to find a diagnosis then I would think it might be best to outline the areas of difficulty and then say something about what diagnosis(es) these might be indicative of. But if the purpose is to outline the areas of difficulty, then specifying a label might not be viewed as helpful. I suppose it might depend on how aspberger's is diagnosed (do you need to have a 3 out or 5 aspects, or 2 core aspects plus any others).

I do have a colleague who does know about ASD so I could ask her anything you would like to know (she isn't a medic/clinican though).

Sorry to judge tone from written word: but I got the impression you were feeling somewhat frustrated by this outcome?

Hope you get the answers that you need and happy to try and help if I can

Vicky 

[scatily]

No, lots of children with learning difficulties / disabilities fit this sort of description / criteria.

[Liverbird]

Pearlsgirl, thanks for your concern and help,   i really just wanted to get other peoples opinions who may have experience with mild aspergers......
I just received my review letter from my sons adhd/dyspraxia specialist, going back to when she met him in Nov, and just happened to notice that there were new conditions on it about him that had come out of the blue..... although i know he has these problems (it is very obvious once you get to know him if your experienced, not necesarily qualified), i may have given examples of his attitude/behaviour/problems and expressed ongoing concerns in the review but didn't expect to see any change in black and white without discusson off the Specialist.  So basically this came as a What? to me, just miffed it was not discussed in detail and i had no prior warning..... bearing in mind that i have been struggling with them for his entitlements/probable ASD since he was 4/5.
My appointment with them yesterday i requested him to be re-assessed for ASD, i have always thought he had this from age 5, and they eventually assessed him when he was about 10 for it, an it came back borderline, tendancies of ASD, but not enough for a diagnosis.  Now don't get me wrong, i would rather have children without special needs if i had the choice, but i haven't and have to do what's best for them to get all the help they require to lead as normal life as possible. I love them to bits!,  Anyway,for the complete picture, she really took me seriously, and gave me an immediate 90 minute appointment with her next month...23/3, and is writing to school with new/different forms for them to complete about him.  His SENCO has always thought he has had ASD from lots of experience of kids with it, this leads me to think that NOW SHE FINALLY HAS CONCERNS HERSELF, The thing is, regarding his school life, it is nearly over, he leaves in June,  he will be 17 early Oct....  SO VICKY, YOU ARE RIGHT, I AM A LITTLE FRUSTRATED TO SAY THE LEAST, ...in anticipation of what comes back

[Liverbird]

Thanks to all the people who have taken  time to read this post, and post on it, and even consider posting on it.   i will keep u informed , Pam 

[Ann Stig (official SWK booking name)]

chin up luv...know how you feel

C diagnosed with ADHD from 5 and medicated for it.  He is now nearly 17 and just been diagnosed with dylexia, dyspraxia and another dys to do with his handwriting.

I quizzed the consultants on this and 's not their jobs to diagnosed these!!!!

Fair enough but there is no guidance out there and schools are failing the kids in this respect (well at least chris's did).

Ive now asked for M and K to be tested.

Ann

[Liverbird]

Don't blame u hun, will speak to u soon and good on u     

[janey1968]

Hi Pam,

Your post caught my eye as my daughter who is 9 nearly 10 has Asperger's syndrome according to the CAMHS team at my local hospital, although for official purposes she has been diagnosed with an ASD. However the letter I got actually said that she had autistic spectrum disorder tendencies as with your son and went on to list the problems with social skills etc again as with your son. It seems that certainly in my area they are very reluctant to actually give a childs condition a name, they seem to just want to put them under one big umbrella of ASD's.
Asperger's is very rare in girls apparently, usually it's boys and for that reason often gets over looked or mistaken for something else. It took me years of bagering and mithering to get school to take me seriously and actually begin the assessment process with her, I had had my suspicions there was something with her from her being 2 or 3 but wasn't quite sure what exactly. Twelve months after her diagnosis am still waiting to see the educational psychologist and every process is frustratingly slow!!! I am conscious that very soon we will be having to decide about high schools and time is running out for things to be in place by then. I completely sympathise with you with your son almost at the end of his school life without any sort of diagnosis as he is going to be going out into the big wide world still experiencing the difficulties that he does and still not being able to deal with people and situations very well. All I can do is say to you exactly the same as an old neighbour of mine told me,she worked with autistic adults btw. She told me to keep badgering and mithering and being a nuisance because in the end they will give in if nothing else for a quiet life. School i think view me as a nightmare lol but you know what I will do whatever it takes to get S the help she desperately needs and i will keep being a nuisance until she gets it. As I'm sure your more than fully aware it's hard work and completely and utterly draning emotionally at times, but keep going and keep fighting you will get there!
Jane

[Liverbird]

Jane,
Thank u very much for your understanding reply, i (unfortunately) know exactly where you are coming from with your daughter, as i am also having the same issues with my daughter, but not with asd with ADHD, pus i know there are other things going on but definately not asd with her......  I have fought long and hard for my son but as soon as my daughter was born i was forced to give her more attention as she was much more (and still is) difficult, though now i have more time while she is in school., i can get back 100% + on track with my son with my son's conditions.   
the CAMHS team saw my son and had to finish his therapy because the new person they got in to chat with him weekly for about 10 months retired!!!.......... so they had to quickly close things with him and 'wrap things up' s they explained to me.  he was 14 at the time.   
the Camhs team also saw my daughter when she ws 2.5  till she was in year 1, when her struggle for me to physically get her there was far too much for me, (physically lashing out so our car journey was completely unsafe, not to mention her attitude nor un-willingness to leave school for appointments)..... so i told them that , and they dismissed us, (even though she was violently abbusive to her worker, while i was in the nxt room) i could hear everythng that was going on.    i finally got her re-admitted when she was 6 only to be dismissed as the chap who dealt with her was also leaving, so our final phone call was him to wrap things up yet again telling me 'he was just tying us loose ends'...) .......    So,my daughter is just a loose end to them!!!!  Jane, u have given me another breth to get on the phone and fight yet again on Monday.... thank you  xx

[oldbag]

Hi  I am not an expert on these subjects,I work with 16/17 yr old boys who have avariety of s e n, some with adhd some with aspergers.. and there are so many similarites between these two and therefore sometimes they do get misdiagnosed so really important to keep on the case! My nephew who is now 21 has aspergers, I remember since he was 4 there were developmental differences from his brother but it wasnt recognised then which ended up meaning he was out of school for a good chunk of his schooling as he simply couldnt function in that enviro, as there was not the additional help then that is much more available now.  Hope things work out for you .. do feel for you as being a parent is hard anyway and with children with s e n, so much harder, as so much more to battle through ( and not talking about your children now but all the crap you have to fight through to ensure your children are getting the best possible help)  YOU must always remember how fantastic a job you are doing..

Sorry this just sounds like a bunch of waffle, just wanted to send out encouragement really !
Jane xx

[janey1968]

Hi Pam,

Glad I could help even if it is in such a small way. You certainly have your work cut out with both your children having similar problems and I can't believe that they have been so dismissive of your daughter, don't give up keep trying!!!! I thought my daughter was hard work at times and while she has strops I don't have any problem with her being overly aggressive, she just gets cross and shouts more than anything.
Have you tried parent partnership? Have a look on the website, i'm sure there must be one in your area. If you haven't already, may be worth phoning them first and explain whats been happening. They should be able to help with both children. They will act on your behalf, they can arrange meetings at school and they will go with you, it's just a bit of moral support really. My kids don't have contact with their dad so it's helped me having someone fighting in my corner, meetings etc can be intimidating on your own. Also in Stockport they have what's called the Stockport Disability Database and they work in tandem with parent partnership and can help with things if parent partnership can't but they also have loads of info about activities for kids and any help or support groups that are out there as well. There maybe something similar where you are but the parent partnership should be able to tell you what there is available to you. The only thing with the database is that there is such a long waiting list it took about six months before someone came to see me. Like everything else it's a waiting game but the Parent Partnership should be able to help you almost straight away.
Good luck!!!!!

Jane

[Liverbird]

thanks jane,
 
I did use these with D when he was first mis-diagnosed/undiagnosed for asd, i have always known they were there but now u have actually mentioned them, i will get back in touch with them, especially as D will be on their records from when he was about 5!  They would certainly help me out again, without a doubt 
Until someone actually points these things out to me, it doesn't register!!!!! (lol)

just an update for you, and al who have viewed this, I have spoke with his school SENCO and she informed me that his name is down on 'the list to be discussed' at the next meeting with the specialist doctor from Alder Hey this month in his school,  She told me that she will support me 100% regarding d having aspergers, as she has thought that since he joined the school.  She said she regarded him as may be having adhd, dyspraxia and other difficulties but more prominent is the asd!..... There are already a few things in place which d is getting help with in school, but he wouldn't get any more help as he leaves in a few months!,  Though the way i m looking at it is to try to get things in place for him for when he starts further education...

My message to all parents of kids with additional needs is to listen to your gut instinct, keep fighting and knocking on doors, seek help, talk about your concerns and you shold get there in the end, even if it may be a little late, at least you willknow you were right all along and they have there future ahead with an answer for the difficulties   xxx

[janey1968]

My message to all parents of kids with additional needs is to listen to your gut instinct, keep fighting and knocking on doors, seek help, talk about your concerns and you shold get there in the end, even if it may be a little late, at least you willknow you were right all along and they have there future ahead with an answer for the difficulties   xxx
[/quote]
I whole heartedly agree  lol!!!! Glad things are starting to move again for you. Good luck!!!!

[janey1968]

Just something that I'd forgotten about and have only been reminded about thanks to a letter that came this morning. I am in the process of changing my gas and electricity supplier over to British Gas. I didn't know until very recently that they have an Energy Care register (hence why I'm changing over!) which you can be put on if there is anyone in the house that has a disability. It means that you become a priority customer if you need to call them out to any problems with your gas or electricity. Whether it will make any difference in the really cold weather when everyone's boilers are breaking down remains to be seen lol but every little helps and autistic spectrum disorders/aspergers count  . I've also found out this morning that because i get DLA for my daughter I maybe eligible to go on a lower tariff which will save some money. Worth knowing and bearing in mind for the future  !

Jane x

[skittle]

This site gets more like 'Benefits are us' every day. 

I hope a child on the autistic spectrum wouldn't take priority over a young baby or other more vulnerable person.

[janey1968]

This site gets more like 'Benefits are us' every day. 

I hope a child on the autistic spectrum wouldn't take priority over a young baby or other more vulnerable person.

The post was meant to be of some help to someone who is in a similar position to myself and I thought it would be helpful to them! It was in no way intended to mean that children on the autistic spectrum should take priority over others that could also be considered a priority for different reasons. Each case needs to judged on individual merit and quite rightly so.
You obviously are lucky enough not to have a  child(ren) who have a disability and therefore you can't posiibly have any understanding of how hard it can both emotionally and financially! If you did you wouldn't have put such a flippant comment on here! I suspect every parent on here who has a child with a disablility would rather their child was 'normal' but as it is they aren't and therefore we make the best of the situation we find ourselves in! I have being paying my national insurance since I left school at 16 I am now 42 and I have continued to work after having all 3 of my children and I certainly won't allow you or anyone else to make me feel guilty for now receiving money which my daughter is entitled to, or anything else come to that which helps to make life just a little bit easier for her and our family. Neither should anyone else on here feel guilty for doing exactly the same whether they work or not, I certainly intend to make the most of anything and everything that is available to us and would tell anyone in a similar position to do the same!
I actually thought that SWK was used by people to get help and support through difficult times as well as to meet people in similar situations,perhaps it may be useful to remember that!

[Liverbird]

Janey1968    :  WELL SAID, I KNOW A FEW PARENTS WHO HAVE CHILDREN WITH DIFFICULTIES AND TRYING TO LIVE THEIR LIVES AS A SINGLE PARENT FAMILY AS BEST THEY CAN, I SAY FAMILY AS IT DOES AFFECT EACH AND EVERY FAMILY MEMBER.  EACH AND EVERYONE OF THEM WOULD SUPPORT WHAT YOU HAVE JUST SAID

SKITTLE :  Did u intend to come on this to upset people ?  Are u having a bad day?   Airing things helps people cope  and further advice & support in any way is more than welcome and very helpful. I always try to teach MY CHILDREN if they haven't got anything nice to say then 'don't say it at all'  I have worked full time until my last child was born, she too has special needs which takes up so much time and energy, so to be a single parent with no family support, then to come on here and be slatered and kicked down when unjustified is plain malicious.  Were children on the autistic spectrum never babies once, do they have no rights?  I have worked with adults with Specific learning needs/Vulnerable people as a Support Worker, hmm, does that make me think of them any less?  The only reason why i don't work with them now is i actually have my own children with similar issues who i need to care for 24/7.  I too, am NOT GUILTY for accepting any help throughtout any stage in our lives.  I too, love my children for who they are as individuals.  I really do not know why you posted on here, other than to upset a large number of people WHO DO UNDERSTAND.  Pam

[Ellyb]

Skittle is just posted an opinion, this is an open forum, people are entitled to thier opinions, itsm what makes forums good interactive places - if everyone agreed life would be dull!

Who gets the money  out of the every shrinking benefit pot is an interestind question.....30 years agao aspergers, adhd etc were harldy reecognised kids were just lablelled as bad.

I guess its a case of which type of benefit claimant takes priority.

Personally, and it may upset some people, it annoys the hell out of me i have to work 1 full time and 1 part time job as well as have a lodger just to surviive!  I would love some financial help from the governement....but because my kids are "normal" i am entitled to hardly anything!?   

[brightstar]

I would love to have a job , have a lodger or even friends to my house, be able to go on holidays with big groups of people and relax, go to busy parks, do things on a whim, be able to go out without my child, be able to relax without being one step ahead,ask a friend to look after my child, see my child in a mainstream school, see my child being able to go to clubs outside of school,not to be judged when I name my sons disability,to see my child playing with other children his age like them, see my childs face if he got invited to a birthday party or to a friends house.

The list goes on, but I cant because hes "not normal".
It has taken a long time to accept my life cannot be how I wish.
I am totally isolated, and i would give all my extra benefits back in a flash if it meant my children were "normal" becase I tell you what unless you live with children with a severe disability, you have no clue.

[Liverbird]

Helen, We would all love 'normal' kids ..... the fact is you can't choose what type of child you get. 
           While everyone is entitled to an opinion, that type of opinion goes very very deep, and obviously there are people who do (due to unfortunate circumstances) understand, and people who clearly don't, nor are willing to.

I personally have not chosen this life nor have my children asked for it.  In my younger days i was full of ambition, i was going places, i did work full time.  I do have a fabulous car to show for it, due to my hard work.  I am now working even harder yet am simply trying to survive on the poverty line.  No employer would take on a single parent who has no back up for childminding, constant hospital appointments, etc and time of here and there for situations that occur at school.  This is my opinion, i am not writing this to upset anyone but to justify peoples situations similar to myself.
My son hopes to go to University, and thanks to my continuous support, he probably will.  Or should he just accept that he is never going to go anywhere in life......
My Brother is 10 years older than me, we believe he has undiagnosed conditions, he has gone knowwhere, and now never will, He got no help 30 years ago, so lets change the world for the better.
Pam (who would love to be in a position where no goverment help was required)

[Liverbird]

Well said Brightstar  .   Totally agree, Totally understand  x

[Salsa_66]

I totally agree with your posts Liverbird, I would like to see some people cope like us single parents with children with disability's cope with thier day to day needs.

[Liverbird]

Salsa-66

Day to day life is very hard, we always try to look on the brightside putting the needs of children first, it is hard going, but its also them that keep us going!  Thanks 

[Ann Stig (official SWK booking name)]

Whoa there everyone.

Yes people are entitled to their opinions but didnt think this thread was all about 'benefits'....bit strong there skittle lol.......and skittle does understand about special needs kids (hope you dont mind me saying that hun).

I went years as a single mum, of 3, 2 with special needs and never claimed a thing.  Only claimed when I needed the extra help when made redundant and decided to go back into education.   Could have been claiming for 10 years and didnt but didnt moan about others getting it!

Ann

[Liverbird]

I do not know S's circumstances, she mearly has had a small window in mine, as i have openly given it.  I do though find it very hard to grasp that anyone could say such a thing?, yet truley ' 'understand' about special needs kids', . The way it was written does not show that,  ....nor (my belief) is it fair to comment without giving an explanation.......


One thing i do believe though is that parents of sen children who are financially stable, can give their children much more options to be the best they can be, with all different private therapist help, so the outcome is less chance of more complex & continuous problems, whereas children of parent/s less fortunate (through no fault of their own) mearly need the benefits when required, to help a bad situation.  I too, did not claim benefits for my son for his sen until he was about 11, as although he was entitled to it from an early age, i was not in need of it for him, we managed with out it, yet i was aware of it.  It expired last year and i have only just tried to re-claimed it, i do not know if we have been awarded it yet.  It certainly should be!   

[Silky]

30 years agao aspergers, adhd etc were harldy reecognised kids were just lablelled as bad.

...and child abuse, domestic violence were likewise swept under the carpet in the stiff-upper-lip culture.  Just because Aspergers / ADHD weren't recognised doesn't mean it didn't exist. My sister is a mental health nurse and a large percentage of her adult patients have severe Autism and Aspergers-related conditions and are unable to be let back into the community, some proving a severe danger to others as well as themselves.  If we're advocating a practice of denying disabilities and diseases because they haven't been recognised in the past, then 30 years of modern health care and scientific discoveries have brought us nowhere.

I am vehemently against the benefit culture, a culture where people think because others more needy receive assistance, then why shouldn't they too? If parents can work and children are" normal", then why should there be a host of benefits unless the children are pre-school or as an interim measure because the parents are between jobs or are on very low wages?    I have worked full time (and more) from when my children were 3 months old and in all honesty given the issues some people on here have to deal with, I am grateful I have been able to. "Normal" children easily find places in nurseries. "Normal" children receive the appropriate attention in school and aren't singled out at schools because of their disability. The parents of "normal" children don't have to attend appointment after appointment or be called back to take their children from school at any given opportunity.

I have little experience of disability and therefore it is not my place to judge whether one is better / worse / more needy than another, that is the job of the medical professionals. Neither would I ever want to "walk a mile" in many of the parents shoes whose children do have disabilities or conditions - health is something so many of us take for granted, would anyone really wish to trade that for a handful of benefits?

If someone has strong financial support it's difficult to understand why these benefits are necessary - but what is the alternative? Should the families simply be ignored by the system, trapped between being unable to work properly because of their children's needs yet left out to dry by the system? I hope not - a breed of capitalism fortunately not yet reached by current governments.

I am not sure which cases would actually be seen as higher priority than families in these situations. My 3 month old babies were happy in nursery, I certainly wouldn't have put myself higher on the benefit list than a family with special needs, there was no reason I couldn't work. I'm not sure where the medical knowledge comes from to classify autism (or any related condition) as less needy than a happy, healthy baby but I would suggest it, at the best, extremely flawed.

Silky x

[Liverbird]

Once again Silky, you are a woman of wise words        xx

[Ellyb]

I was only expressing an opinion, its is something i have experience of growing up with a severly disabled brother i am well aware of the limitations a child with a disability can place on your life.

But looking at 2 examples i have experience of as well...My daughter needs hospital visits every few weeks, sometimes weekly for physio, scans, check ups etc regarding an ongoing problem with her wrist joints....as its not a disability and she is "normal"  i cant claim anything to help me with the cost of hosplital trips...£4 just to park each time!

My son, is having behavoiurly problems at school and underperforming in maths and science, school dont have the resources and suggest private tutoring.....again because he is "normal" i have to pay for this....school provides extra lessons in core subject for any children with SEN.

So its a fine line as to what is normal and whats not i guess - please no one shoot me down in flames i am merely expressing my opinion and frustration at the system.

[Ann Stig (official SWK booking name)]

Yes you should get help Ellyb........Defo with the costs of hospital visits and the time off work you have to take and your son is being failed by the school.....they are the ones who should be helping.....

My View!

Ann x

[bunnygirl]

i thought i would come and say hi ive got a girl of 9 comin up 10 who has aspergers along with sensory processing disorder,and other issues too if you ever wanna chat i will be on later as i work in the day.clare

[Flibbertigibbet]

I am astonished at the people who said they would rather have a "normal" child, initially I thought I had misunderstood the thread but then i re read statements like this "We would all love 'normal' kids ..... the fact is you can't choose what type of child you get" and "You obviously are lucky enough not to have a  child(ren) who have a disability " while I appreciate everyone is entitled to an opinion it is a very different one to myself. I have a child with Aspergers who attends a boarding school as part of him needing a 24 hour curriculum , I do not wish him to be any different to the person he is.

[Silky]

I don't think anyone would wish to change their child, but everyone wants the very best for their children and if we could simply wipe away their afflictions / challenges / disabilities and make life easier for them, I'm sure few people wouldn't do so.

My children don't have ADHD and I feel lucky that I don't have half the challenges facing those parents that do. It doesn't make my child any better or worse, any more or less loveable, it simply means my challenges - and those of my children - are fewer. There are a number of parents on this thread who have their children 24/7 with absolutely no help from the other parent or boarding schools, and I can only imagine the difficulties - Brightstar has 4 lovely children, a juggling act in itself for any family but factor in a single parent, no outside help and then challenges like ADHD or Aspergers....

Silky x

[Tulip]

Well posted Silky.  I too do not know what it's like to have a special needs child although my best friend of 30 years has a daughter (now grown up) with very special needs.  She too loves her daughter with all her heart but she would tell you honestly that the years have been hard, for lack of sleep, support, understanding, stares and the fact that her daughter will never experience all the things we are able to.  My friend has struggled with so many things that many of us take for granted such as holidays, days out etc - all so much harder because of the extra challenges.
Flibbertigibbet - I don't believe most people would be astonished at what people have written.  It's lovely to hear you wouldn't change a thing and good on you but my friend (and I am sure most) if given the opportunity to press a 'normal' or 'speical needs' button in pregnancy would press the first one, it's just natural human nature and as parents (just as Silky has said) we wouldn't choose for our children to have additonal challenges than necessary. That doesn't mean these children are less loveable, definately not.  Almost every mother attends scans etc to check things are ok, this speaks for itself. 

[Ann Stig (official SWK booking name)]

I am astonished at the people who said they would rather have a "normal" child, initially I thought I had misunderstood the thread but then i re read statements like this "We would all love 'normal' kids ..... the fact is you can't choose what type of child you get" and "You obviously are lucky enough not to have a  child(ren) who have a disability " while I appreciate everyone is entitled to an opinion it is a very different one to myself. I have a child with Aspergers who attends a boarding school as part of him needing a 24 hour curriculum , I do not wish him to be any different to the person he is.

Believe you have taken it out of context

I have 2 ADHD boys, love them to bits and wouldnt change them for the world.  Just a pity they have to have ADHD and be held back with it.....or over forward, depends how you wanna see it.

your comment was unnecessary btw!  just there to cause trouble or upset people, not as if we have enough to cope with but your thoughts too

[Ellyb]

Thanks, i did know about the funding, but because he isnt in the bottom percentile he doesnt quialify.

[monkeys mom]

I have just completed a module on Understanding the Autism Spectrum as part of a psychology degree and found it incredibly humbling. 30 years ago children were split from their families and put into psychiatric hospitals because no-one understood.

If you take the Aspergers test you'll find that everyone (on some level) has it and this is what makes diagnosis so difficult. Looking at the official diagnostic methods made my head spin let alone having to apply them to children who are all very different from different social backgrounds.  There are large overlaps with many of the disorders that professionals can vary in their opinions.

Regardless of the label - all children deserve to be given every opportunity to be the best they can.

Proud mom to little monkey with mild aspergers

MM x

[Paul]

I have just completed a module on Understanding the Autism Spectrum as part of a psychology degree and found it incredibly humbling. 30 years ago children were split from their families and put into psychiatric hospitals because no-one understood.

If you take the Aspergers test you'll find that everyone (on some level) has it and this is what makes diagnosis so difficult. Looking at the official diagnostic methods made my head spin let alone having to apply them to children who are all very different from different social backgrounds.  There are large overlaps with many of the disorders that professionals can vary in their opinions.

Regardless of the label - all children deserve to be given every opportunity to be the best they can.

Proud mom to little monkey with mild aspergers

MM x

You get the chance should watch the film "Temple Grandin"  I don't think its available on DVD here, it's a lovely inspiring true story about an Autistic lady, that highlights the difficulties that parents had 30 years ago (it was on TV at Christmas)